# Paying for Dalet Minim in cash in order to get a discount
**URL:** https://discourse.aishdas.org/t/paying-for-dalet-minim-in-cash-in-order-to-get-a-discount/67632
**Category:** Avodah
**Created:** [September 24, 2026, 1:19pm UTC](https://discourse.aishdas.org/t/paying-for-dalet-minim-in-cash-in-order-to-get-a-discount/67632 "2026-09-24T13:19:47Z")
**Posts on this page:** 8
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@mberger](https://discourse.aishdas.org/u/mberger)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2026, 1:19pm UTC](https://discourse.aishdas.org/t/paying-for-dalet-minim-in-cash-in-order-to-get-a-discount/67632/1 "2026-09-24T13:19:47Z")
**Dalet Minim “_Chumera_” #1: and it ended up not being a chumera!**
If the salesman offers you a discount if you pay in cash, you are no allowed to pay in cash, and if you do, your 4 minim aren’t kosher.
I made that up and later had a “_barukh shekivanti_!” moment when I heard R YB Soloveitchik said the same first. (Except he said it about checks, not credit cards. Different era.)
Since, there are fewer and fewer jurisdictions that charge sales tax in this situation.
**Here is the reasoning:**
The discount is so likely because he can thereby not declare the sale, and avoid sales tax. Which means
1. he is sinning, and
2. you are helping him sin in a situation where he can’t do it without your help (“_trei ivri denahara_”). Meaning, both of you are violating deOraisos.
And, if you acquiesce, using the _esrog_ is a _mitzvah haba’ah ba’aveirah_, a _mitzvah_ made possible via an object obtained sinfully. (The Y-mi’s idiom is “_sageiro nasseh kateiguro_”, which more explicitly says it is a _pesul_ in the _cheftza_.) Or perhaps the whole set is, depending if you buy a package priced based on the esrog, or you buy an esrog and then the other three are thrown in as a bonus.
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### Author:  [@Mike\_Wiesenberg](https://discourse.aishdas.org/u/Mike_Wiesenberg)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2026, 6:40pm UTC](https://discourse.aishdas.org/t/paying-for-dalet-minim-in-cash-in-order-to-get-a-discount/67632/2 "2026-09-25T18:40:49Z")
You must know that there’s a thing called credit card processing fees and it’s 100 percent kosher to not use a credit card to avoid them.
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### Author:  [@mberger](https://discourse.aishdas.org/u/mberger)
#### Post date: [September 26, 2026, 5:44pm UTC](https://discourse.aishdas.org/t/paying-for-dalet-minim-in-cash-in-order-to-get-a-discount/67632/3 "2026-09-26T17:44:18Z")
We obviously aren’t talking about a 3% discount.
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### Author:  [@rhecht](https://discourse.aishdas.org/u/rhecht)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2026, 1:08am UTC](https://discourse.aishdas.org/t/paying-for-dalet-minim-in-cash-in-order-to-get-a-discount/67632/4 "2026-09-28T01:08:14Z")
I paid in cash because it was simpler: not to get a discount.
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### Author:  [@mberger](https://discourse.aishdas.org/u/mberger)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2026, 5:25am UTC](https://discourse.aishdas.org/t/paying-for-dalet-minim-in-cash-in-order-to-get-a-discount/67632/5 "2026-09-28T05:25:20Z")
I think the offer of a discount (of significantly more than credit card fees) is a critical piece. It is your reason for suspecting the seller’s motives
And do they even tax 4 minim sales where you live?
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### Author:  [@rhecht](https://discourse.aishdas.org/u/rhecht)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2026, 5:50am UTC](https://discourse.aishdas.org/t/paying-for-dalet-minim-in-cash-in-order-to-get-a-discount/67632/6 "2026-09-28T05:50:03Z")
Like everywhere, it depends where you go. I bought my set from someone at a shul basement this year, to give you an idea. Let’s just say that I spent a bit MORE than I mentally was prepared to, and that’s with cash. There was no tax either way, and it was cash only.
Let’s just say that next year bli neder, tax or no tax, I’ll try elsewhere and with a little better planning.
The above said, you should see how it is in Boro Park 1-2 days before Yom Tov. It’s all cash and no regulation.
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### Author:  [@rhecht](https://discourse.aishdas.org/u/rhecht)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2026, 5:55am UTC](https://discourse.aishdas.org/t/paying-for-dalet-minim-in-cash-in-order-to-get-a-discount/67632/7 "2026-09-28T05:55:39Z")
Anyway, that was getting off topic, but bottom line many 4 minim places are cash only.
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### Author:  [@mberger](https://discourse.aishdas.org/u/mberger)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2026, 10:13am UTC](https://discourse.aishdas.org/t/paying-for-dalet-minim-in-cash-in-order-to-get-a-discount/67632/8 "2026-09-28T10:13:51Z")
I wonder if RYBS distrusted all cash businesses as potentially being under-the-table.
I would think that until a discount is mentioned, one should give the seller a חזקת כשרות. But, if we gave sellers such a חזקה, why would Shomer Shabbos owned establishments routinely have _hashgachos_?
(Which gets it back on topic…)