barchu

Avodah
1

According to the S"A 139:7, after the oleh "commands" the community to bless HKB"H before reading the Torah, the congregation responds "baruch hashem hamevorach l'olam vaed" and the oleh the repeats the phrase in order to be included with the congregation of blessers. Why does he wait and not utter the phrase with the congregation?
KT
Joel Rich

THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE
ADDRESSEE. IT MAY CONTAIN PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL
INFORMATION THAT IS EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE. Dissemination,
distribution or copying of this message by anyone other than the addressee is
strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please notify us
immediately by replying: "Received in error" and delete the message.
Thank you.

2

: According to the S"A 139:7, after the oleh "commands" the community to
: bless HKB"H before reading the Torah, the congregation responds "barchu
: hashem hamevorach l'olam vaed" and the oleh the repeats the phrase in
: order to be included with the congregation of blessers. Why does he wait
: and not utter the phrase with the congregation?

See the Agur, Hil' Berakhos 98, which can be found at
<http://www.beureihatefila.com/files/2008-04-04_Tefila_Newsletter.pdf#page=2&gt;\.
The Maharam miRothenburg held the sha"tz needn't say it at all.
R' Yehudah al-Barceloni says he should say.
The Agur adds: and we are noheig to say it.

The next source, the Avudraham (or to be accurate: Abu-Dirham), says
that the sha"tz says it to be among the community of mevorkhim. He
cites the Y-mi (Berakhos 7:3).

And he adds that R' Yehudah b"r Barzili Barceloni (I assume the same
source as the Seifer haAgur) writes in the name of R' Saadia that even
though the sha"tz said "haMvorakh", and therefore didn't remove himself
from the klal, he needs to return himself to the klal "legamrei" and day
"Barukh H' Hamvorkh". Like in bentching, where the leader says "nevareikh"
and yet repeats the responses of the rest of the zimun.

No answer there.

However, note that the assumption is that Borkhu doesn't need the sha"tz
or the oleh to repeat it. The sha"tz needs to repeat it for his own sake,
so as not to exclude himself from the kelal of mevorkhim. (Except according
to the MmR, who doesn't believe the sha"tz has such a need.)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

3

.
R' Joel Rich asked:

According to the S"A 139:7, after the oleh "commands" the
community to bless HKB"H before reading the Torah, the
congregation responds "baruch hashem hamevorach l’olam vaed"
and the oleh the repeats the phrase in order to be included
with the congregation of blessers. Why does he wait and not
utter the phrase with the congregation?

Incidentally, the same situation and question applies by the Borchu
prior to Birchos Krias Shema, as per S"A 57:1.

I can't bring any source, but in my mind, the simple answer is that if
the oleh would say it together with the congragation, he might not be
heard. The delay is to insure that no one mistakenly thinks that the
oleh is excluding himself.

I was going to ask a related question about Kaddish that has bothered
me for some time. Namely: When the Kaddish-sayer says "Yhei Shmei
Raba" himself, why does Mishne Brurah 56:2 tell him to say it
*quietly*?

But I am *not* going to ask that question, because RJR's post has
forced me to compare these tefilos carefully, and I have found a
difference that might help to answer his question.

RJR was very correct when he used the word "command" to describe what
the oleh is saying. The word "Borchu" is indeed the tzivui/imperative
form of the verb. But no comparable command exists in Kaddish.

Yes, the Kaddish-leader does command them "v'imru", but he even
specifies what it is that he wants them to say. Namely, a simple
"amen". And so they do. May I suggest that the "Yhei Shmei Raba" is an
impromptu addition, that the tzibur adds of their own accord, NOT
commanded to do so by the Kaddish-leader. Thus, there is no fear of
causing any illusions that he is somehow excluding himself. Indeed, he
himself added to the praise by saying "Yisborach v'yishtabach", which
(one might say) is simply an expanded version of "Yhei Shmei Raba".

So I guess the real question on MB 56:2 is not why the leader says
Yhei quietly instead of loudly, but perhaps we could ask whether the
leader really needs to say Yhei at all.

Akiva Miller