Paying for Dalet Minim in cash in order to get a discount

Avodah
1

Dalet Minim “Chumera” #1: and it ended up not being a chumera!

If the salesman offers you a discount if you pay in cash, you are no allowed to pay in cash, and if you do, your 4 minim aren’t kosher.

I made that up and later had a “barukh shekivanti!” moment when I heard R YB Soloveitchik said the same first. (Except he said it about checks, not credit cards. Different era.)

Since, there are fewer and fewer jurisdictions that charge sales tax in this situation.

Here is the reasoning:

The discount is so likely because he can thereby not declare the sale, and avoid sales tax. Which means

  1. he is sinning, and

  2. you are helping him sin in a situation where he can’t do it without your help (“trei ivri denahara”). Meaning, both of you are violating deOraisos.

And, if you acquiesce, using the esrog is a mitzvah haba’ah ba’aveirah, a mitzvah made possible via an object obtained sinfully. (The Y-mi’s idiom is “sageiro nasseh kateiguro”, which more explicitly says it is a pesul in the cheftza.) Or perhaps the whole set is, depending if you buy a package priced based on the esrog, or you buy an esrog and then the other three are thrown in as a bonus.

2

You must know that there’s a thing called credit card processing fees and it’s 100 percent kosher to not use a credit card to avoid them.

3

We obviously aren’t talking about a 3% discount.

4

I paid in cash because it was simpler: not to get a discount.

5

I think the offer of a discount (of significantly more than credit card fees) is a critical piece. It is your reason for suspecting the seller’s motives

And do they even tax 4 minim sales where you live?

6

Like everywhere, it depends where you go. I bought my set from someone at a shul basement this year, to give you an idea. Let’s just say that I spent a bit MORE than I mentally was prepared to, and that’s with cash. There was no tax either way, and it was cash only.

Let’s just say that next year bli neder, tax or no tax, I’ll try elsewhere and with a little better planning.

The above said, you should see how it is in Boro Park 1-2 days before Yom Tov. It’s all cash and no regulation.

7

Anyway, that was getting off topic, but bottom line many 4 minim places are cash only.

1 Like
8

I wonder if RYBS distrusted all cash businesses as potentially being under-the-table.

I would think that until a discount is mentioned, one should give the seller a חזקת כשרות. But, if we gave sellers such a חזקה, why would Shomer Shabbos owned establishments routinely have hashgachos?

(Which gets it back on topic…)