Tzitzis Tying Decision

Continuing the discussion from Being Chosheish for Other Shitos:

A quick peek in the Rambam and the entire 7 to 13 gets an interesting twist.

IIUC he is saying that when you have תכלת you need between 5 and 13 knots.

וְלוֹקֵחַ חוּט אֶחָד מִן הַלָּבָן, וְכוֹרֵךְ בּוֹ כְּרִיכָה אַחַת עַל שְׁאָר הַחוּטִין בְּצַד הַבֶּגֶד וּמַנִּיחוֹ, וְלוֹקֵחַ חוּט הַתְּכֵלֶת, וְכוֹרֵךְ בּוֹ שְׁתֵּי כְּרִיכוֹת בְּצַד כְּרִיכָה שֶׁלַּלָּבָן וְקוֹשֵׁר; וְאֵלּוּ הַשָּׁלשׁ כְּרִיכוֹת - הֵם הַנִּקְרָאִין ‘חֻלְיָה’.

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כַּמָּה חֻלְיוֹת הוּא עוֹשֶׂה בְּכָל כָּנָף? לֹא פָּחוּת מִשֶּׁבַע וְלֹא יָתֵר עַל שְׁלשׁ עֶשְׂרֵה, וְזוֹ הִיא מִצְוָה מִן הַמֻּבְחָר; וְאִם לֹא כָּרַךְ אֶלָּא חֻלְיָה אַחַת - כְּשֵׁרָה.

But if you only have white then you don’t need any of these numbers.

הָעוֹשֶׂה לָבָן בְּלֹא תְּכֵלֶת - לוֹקֵחַ אֶחָד מִשְּׁמוֹנַת הַחוּטִין, וְכוֹרֵךְ אוֹתוֹ עַל שְׁאָר הַחוּטִין עַד שְׁלִישָׁן, וּמַנִּיחַ שְׁנֵי שְׁלִישֵׁיהֶן עָנָף. וּכְרִיכָה זוֹ: אִם רָצָה לִכְרֹךְ אוֹתָהּ חֻלְיוֹת חֻלְיוֹת כְּעֵין שֶׁכּוֹרֵךְ בַּתְּכֵלֶת - הָרְשׁוּת בְּיָדוֹ, וְזֶה הוּא מִנְהָגֵנוּ; וְאִם רָצָה לִכְרֹךְ בְּלֹא מִנְיַן חֻלְיוֹת - עוֹשֶׂה.

So how this numbering system fits with our post-techeiles development is even more puzzling. Starting to smell like a Cholent Minhag.

-Danny, eternally fascinated by the development of Yiddishkeit.

The Rambam has one knot per chulyah. The Teimanim understand this to mean the chulyah is the wrappings on the outside of a knot. So, 7-13 of that kind of knot. Plus they do a double-knot before the chulyos, as there is a deOraisa knot aside form chulyos.

Alternatively, you could understand the Rambam as requiring the deOraisa knot, and one knot after each chulyah for a total of 8-14 knots.

I don’t see where 5 coud be enough.

Although 2 could take care of the bare minimum one chulyah and you’re yotzei. Still not 5, though.

5 knots can be made consistent with the Raavad and with Rashi and Tosafos, as I wrote earlier.

The Gra has 5 knots – 4, 4, 4, 1 chuliyos between them. Again, chulyos with knots.

Keeping 7-8-11-13 is shakier, as would be 7-9-11-13 unless you have Raavad chuliyos. Then you are specifically NOT following Rashi and Tosafos, who say that what we were wearing in their day wasn’t chulyos.

The reason why I don’t smell the chulent cooking in my decision is that a number of chassidishe rabbeim (and a poseiq) as well as two Litvisher gedolei haposqim of our generation believe that’s what the Ari meant.

I assume we can agree that the Ari would do things with a consistent hashkafic (ie Qabbalah) and halachic position. Not chosheish style. So, if all those posqim understand the Ari that way, it is apparently reconcilablem and not a chulent of practices based on conflicting positions.

This is where it gets confusing for me.

Classic הלכה should be traceable all the way back to the Talmud. Otherwise we try look for where it originated, and why.

Each tweak and twist gets analyzed and sourced.

Then we have a parallel world in which מנהג or הלכה get traced back to a kabalistic source. And that is the end of the discussion.

Am I the only one that gets frustrated when the discussion gets closed with sourcing something back to the אריזל?

-Danny